“Adopt Don’t Shop” vs. Responsible Dog Breeding
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Hello dog lovers, I am so glad that you've tuned in for today's informative episode, we're going to be talking about adopt don't shop versus responsible dog breeding. And I am joined by Amy lane. And this is a discussion that really needs to happen. I've been looking forward to this. So Amy, thanks so much for being with me today.
It's pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me.
Amy Lane has been breeding dogs for more than 25 years and is the creator of the mini Goldendoodle. She founded the Goldendoodle Association of North America (GANA) to promote and guide the development of the Goldendoodle to achieve breed standards, while maintaining optimum health.
Well, I am excited. Could you please first introduce yourself and tell us why did you want to cover this topic today?
Okay, well, as you stated I am Amy Lane. I am a long longtime dog breeder, and I think that the topic of adopt don't shop doesn't cover things that people really need to know. I'd like to give some comparisons to that versus puppy mills versus a responsible breeder.
Yes. And that's what we're going to cover today. And do you agree me that when it comes to dog ownership, to me, there seems to be two distinct camps. So people either believe in rescuing dogs, and then the others prefer to buy a dog from a breeder. So it's really an individual choice. And I don't think we should shame others for how they're acquiring their dog. Do you agree?
Absolutely. Like I said, I've been breeding dogs for a couple of decades. And both of my children have two rescue dogs. They do not have or don't don't buy dogs or get dogs from me. They want dogs in need, so they're you know, that is something that does need to be addressed. But people that buy from a breeder should not be shamed because there are specific reasons why people seek out a breeder.
Yes. So why don't we unpack this in your mind? What does responsible breeding actually mean?
WHAT IS RESPONSIBLE BREEDING?
Okay, well, every breed of dog out there comes with its own list of diseases and genetic deficiencies. And so from a breeder’s perspective, it's our job to do the appropriate health testing on every prospective breeding dog and weed out those that should not reproduce, and then pair dogs responsibly, to avoid creating litters that have health issues that could be avoided simply by doing health testing.
And with most breeds, you know, AKC recognized breeds and breeders Is there any checks and balances to make sure breeders are breeding correctly, that they do have a really good breeding program?
DOES AKC REGULATE BREEDING PROGRAMS?
Not through the AKC. The AKC basically is a registry. They only allow purebred dogs to be registered their offspring to be registered, but they don't have any input into whether or not the puppies were a result of breeding a brother and a sister, or a mother and a son or a father and a daughter. They have no control over whether the two dogs that were paired together are unhealthy, or have produced previous litters with unhealthy puppies. And so again, that’s just makes them a registry, which is very different from what I think a kennel club should be. I'm involved with GANA, the Golden Doodle Association of North America, which is the kennel club for Golden Doodles And I created this organization back in 2008, to help guide the development of the golden doodle, and to do that in with the best health in mind, as well as temperament. So we have several different rules and regulations in place that are very, very different than the AKC. No dog can be registered as a breeding dog that has produced puppies, but hasn't been health tested, and proven to be worthy of reproducing. And that's our first step into creating healthy offspring purposely.
Right. And I have to commend you for that. Because I know personally, you know, most of my listeners know that we lost Winston back in January. And, you know, he was a Norwich Terrier. I love the Norwich Terrier breed, I knew I wanted another one. And because they're so rare, and I'm super picky about the breeder that I choose, I thought I'd be on a waiting list for at least a year or two. We got Dutton he is a Norwich, he is amazing. And I am so blessed that we got him as soon as we did. But I was very surprised at how few, quote unquote, reputable readers there actually are. I went right to the Norwich Club of America, Judy is the executive director. And I said, Judy, who do you recommend, and she actually wanted to talk me out of the breed, because there aren't many good breeders doing the testing. So I was really disappointed that this breed that I love, that there are so few breeders to choose from. So in your mind, what percentage would you say are good golden doodle breeders, since that's the breed that you work with?
That would be a number very difficult to ascertain simply because unless they are a breeder that is visible, such as being a member of GANA, we don't necessarily know about them. And I noticed there are breeders out there that are not members GANA, that aren't good breeders that are doing the health testing. But the numbers of breeders that aren't doing the health testing, and are only doing this to gain, you know, a few extra bucks, way way, outweigh the number of good breeders. And that was one of my purposes with GANA was to raise awareness about health testing and the importance of it. And the simple fact that we could avoid creating litters of puppies with known health issues that could easily be avoided with appropriate testing. Because a lot of times, that's the type of puppy that ends up in a shelter, because they've got issues and no one wants to adopt them and you can't sell them. And full litters many times are dropped off at shelters. And that that's a very sad situation that we all need to work together to raise awareness.
Yes. And what do you think it is? Amy? Is it? I hate to say it is that the money that some of these breeders are just overlooking health issues that they know are there, but continue to breed that dog or those dogs?
WHAT MAKES AN UNREPUTABLE BREEDER?
I think it's a combination of money and or ignorance. With without the appropriate education, how is that uneducated breeder going to know to do better? So that that's, you know, one issue. The other is, it's an expensive task to raise breeding dogs and weed out the ones that don't pass something, we put our dogs to so many different tests and if they failed one single one, then they're removed from my breeding program. They are spayed or neutered and they're a pet for the rest of their life. So when you've got a breeder who owns tow or three dogs they've raised and two of them don't pass something rather than start over, they just breed those dogs. And so that that then does come down to money. And that's why the consumer needs to be so aware and and make sure the proper health testing is being done on the parent dogs.
And Amy when we talk about health testing, what are we testing for?
WHAT’S INVOLVED IN HEALTH TESTING?
Well for each breed. It's different, different there has to be testing for the issues that are prevalent in that particular breed. So for golden doodles, we have to test for anything that is prevalent with the golden retriever and also the poodle, because a golden doodle can have any of those issues. So we for say a blue ribbon designation was GANA, we require that both parent dogs be tested and have passion rating for hip, heart, eyes, elbows at the patellas. And then we also have a list of diseases that are prevalent in one or the other poodle, or golden retriever breeds. And so, the diseases that we are testing for now and these diseases, change from time to time, as they become more prevalent, or as labs discover new diseases that they can actually test for. So the diseases we test for are ichthyosis, which comes from the golden retriever, Von Willebrand Disease which comes from the poodle, degenerative myelopathy, which can come from both. We have three different mutations of progressive retinal atrophy. One is a poodle mutation, two are golden retriever mutations. And we test for neonatal encephalitis, that's a poodle issue. And not that GANA is requiring these other two diseases, but it is something that I've been concentrating on which is Chondrodystrophy and Chondrodysplasia, which are the genes responsible for shorter legs in dogs, like Corgis and Dachshunds. Which are endearing for their breed, but undesirable in my breed.
Sure. And do you test the mom and dad before each breeding? Or is it once a year? What does that look like?
Well, the DNA testing needs to be done only once. So whatever the results are, we know that that we can breed a dog that is a carrier of something, but we just can't pair it with another dog that carries that same mutation. Because carriers are safe to breed, but two carriers that have the same mutation, then you have a chance of those those being paired up and when puppies inherit two of the same disease mutations, then they're affected with that disease. So DNA done once. And many times we don't even have to test puppies, because if we've tested both mom and dad, and they don't carry specific disease genes, the puppies can’t inherit them. So those puppies that would be deemed clear via parentage and not need to be tested. For the physical health testing versus the DNA disease health testing, be it the heart, the elbows, the patellas and the eyes, four of those, all but the eyes can be done just once, as long as the dog has achieved a certain age. And those are considered permanent clearances. Eyes ideally should be tested every year. And that's what's recommended in all breeds is for eyes be tested once a year, because of course vision can change over time.
Sure. Well, this is all great information. Amy. We are going to take a quick commercial break and we will be right back.
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We're back everyone speaking with Amy lane. And this is such an important topic if you either want to adopt or rescue a dog or you want to get a dog from a responsible breeder, which Amy is, and she's giving us the inside scoop of what to look for. So Amy, why don't we talk about the pros and cons of each. of either buying a certain breed that we want from a responsible breeder versus a shelter or rescue dog.
PROS AND CONS OF BUYING FROM A BREEDER VS RESCUE
Okay, well, originally the Adopt Don't Shop slogan and movement was created to guide people away from buying from pet stores because pet stores are notoriously provide their puppies from puppy mills. And so I am 100% behind that movement, to hopefully help people realize that buying from a pet store perpetuates the puppy mills. And we all know that puppy mills are deemed places that are unfit for dogs to live and where puppies don't get the care and the attention and the socialization that they need. And then those are the puppies many times that end up in shelters because they have issues and families give up on them. What has happened is that the adopt don't shop mentality has filtered over to breeders as well. And that's where we want to guide people appropriately because without responsible breeders, we have no more production of puppies and no more production of purebred dogs. Most dogs that are in shelters are not purebred dogs, they're accident litters from people that did not spay or neuter their pet. Or they're filled with puppies from puppy mills that they couldn't sell. And we still want to have healthy dogs, purebred dogs, or purposely bred crossbred dogs. And when you get a puppy from a rescue, you are saving its life. Absolutely. But a rescue dog isn't always an appropriate dog. If you have a family with young children, you don't know the history of this dog. Why was it turned over to the shelter? Did it bite someone? Is it not good with children? Is is a heavy shedder and not appropriate for family with allergies? Is the dog three or four years old and nobody's socialized it. So it has social anxiety,? Was it never house broken properly? And now that that's a difficult situation to correct when the dog is multiple years old. So many times dogs at rescues take a special person to adopt it. Who has the time, patience and the energy to retrain the dog. And there are families that don't have that ability or that time or they have young children making it not an appropriate match. And in those situations, finding a puppy, a well bred puppy from healthy parents from a responsible breeder who's done socialization, health testing and vaccinations and deworming. So that that family can start basically, from scratch with with this puppy and grow it and mold it and train it to be a member of their family. That choice shouldn't be taken away from families. And that is being taken away. If you say you have to adopt don't shop.
True. And when we talk about, let's say a backyard breeder, a breeder such as yourself, and a quote unquote puppy mill. What exactly is the difference?
WHAT IS A PUPPY MILL VS BACKYARD BREEDER VS REPUTABLE BREEDER?
Okay, puppy mills typically have dogs living in cages. They are not a part of the family. They are bred and deliver their litters without any human assistance. The puppies that live, live the puppies that die, die. many times they have no vaccinations. No deworming. those puppies are not handled and socialized day one by humans. So that when those puppies are sold or they leave that puppy mill at eight weeks or so, families are receiving puppies that are reactive to crowds and loud noises, don't travel well in a car and also may have inherent health issues that could have easily been avoided. And puppy mills also notoriously euthanize dogs when they're no longer producing money for them. and one step away from that is your your backyard breeder. The dogs may live wonderful lives with families, but they are being bred without proper screening and health testing. And they could be creating litters of puppies that have genetic deficiencies that may not be noticed until, say six or seven years of age, such as progressive retinal atrophy, which when a puppy inherits a gene of that from each parent, they're gonna go blind at age five, six, or seven. And it's irreversible, there's nothing you could do about it. And so, these backyard breeders are not educating themselves on health testing and on appropriate social socialization protocols, and vaccinations with deworming. So these puppies may have been raised around children. And may have some socialization skills, but they were not bred for temperament, for confirmation and health. then you go to the professional, reputable dog breeder who makes a living breeding dogs. For that person, reputation is critical. And reputation is represented by the health and longevity of the puppies they put out into the world. So a reputable breeder is going to have or be accessible to all of the puppy’s families for the life of that dog, they're going to have done all of the appropriate health testing on the parent dogs going to scan those health tests with each puppy family that purchases a puppy, they are going to provide records of deworming, vaccinations, they're going to share training tips, and offer online training programs or have an affiliation with a trainer to help their families. So basically, buying a puppy from a reputable breeder, breeder means your puppy has had the best start in life, and therefore has the best chance of developing into a mature, wonderful family dog with the support of that breeder. And another thing with responsible breeders is if anybody cannot keep a puppy, that regardless of the age that originated from that breeder, reputable breeders will take them back, they don't want that dog to end up in a shelter. They want the dog to come back to them so they can find an appropriate home for that dog to live out the rest of its life. And that is the complete opposite of what you get from a puppy mill.
So if you were to tell somebody here is what you need to do when you are looking for a puppy, screening breeders, what would you say are the top three or five things that they should do their homework on?
HOW TO SHOP FOR PUREBRED PUPPY
If they are not, in a situation where they have the time to rehabilitate a dog, whether it's health wise, or, you know, emotionally, then they need to look for a responsible breeder that is doing health testing that is prevalent to that breed. And you can go on the AKC website or the OFA.org website and look up what issues are prevalent in each breed. And then you should be able to ask that breeder. Do you test for these? And don't take a yes answer as a definitive answer. You have the right to see those tests. And you want a dog that comes with a warranty and not just a five day warranty. You want a breeder that stands behind their puppies with a minimum of a two year genetic defect warranty. You also want a breeder that is accessible to you when you have questions and you want a breeder that says I will take that dog back from you no matter what no questions asked any phase of that dog's life? That proves you've got a breeder who stands behind their dogs and who really cares about their dogs.
And just because somebody is online does not make them reputable, correct?
Absolutely not. Absolutely not. There are puppy mills with wonderful websites. very deceiving websites. So you need to talk with the breeder. You need to view the health testing on the parent dogs, you, we can't say, Hey, you could visit the breeder before you make a decision because breeders have a life as well. And every time somebody comes into their kennel or their home where they're raising dogs, they have to do an entire sanitation protocol to remove any germs and so forth that people bring in. And many times people visit multiple kennels in a day, and they're carrying germs from one kennel to the other. So what we like to do is offer Facetime with a breeder, where the breeder can show you the kennel, or the or the whelping area, or their puppy play areas, they can show you puppies, you can meet a dog, but you're not risking the health and well being of the dogs and their puppies. So that is something that has become very commonplace. Especially since COVID, when nobody could visit anyone. FaceTiming has been a great way for you to analyze a breeder situation and determine are they reputable? And is that where I want my puppy to come from?
Great advice. Well, I'm just curious. The golden doodle is a great example where you've actually created a new breed, you've put together the golden retriever and a poodle, what is involved with creating a brand new breed?
WHAT’S INVOLVED WITH CREATING A NEW BREED?
Well, quite a bit actually. We and we've been developing this breed for a couple of decades now. So we actually are breeding golden doodles with golden doodles, but when you are starting with two breeds that are so very different. You know, a poodle has a curly non-shedding coat. And a golden retriever has a straight profusely shedding coat. The goal with with golden doodles are to maintain that fun loving personality of the Golden Retriever and that loyalty and the intelligence of the Poodle, but also to create a non shedding coat. So that takes use of DNA technology. Testing on each parent dog before selecting puppies out of the litter to keep for future breeding, doing DNA testing on them, and eliminating dogs that aren’t going to have the genetic makeup that you want to become prevalent in the next generation. And many times that leaves you with one puppy, that's genetically correct. But you want a selection of great temperament.s So we can take litter after litter after litter before you have a puppy that seems to be exactly the epitome of what you think a golden doodle should be to breed on from. And that's only half of breeding pair. So now you have to do that with the other half of the breeding pair that's unrelated. So it is a long process that takes a lot of education. And that's one of the things that GANA does is educate its breeders on the use of DNA technology. We now know how many curl genes a dog carries and how many shedding genes each dog carries, and the color DNA that each dog carries. So when we pair these dogs together, we know will all the puppies in the litter be non shedding? will all the puppies have a straight coat or will some have a curly coat. Will some be carriers of an issue.? You know. So all of that is fairly new, I'd say in the last 10 to 15 years, 10 years really, since we've had DNA technology at our fingertips, reasonably priced, where we can get results back quickly to help us with our breeding decisions.
That's fascinating. And when you say DNA tests, because I know recently, those have come into question, when you take a rescue dog, for example, do a DNA test and I know behind the scenes that you know news companies have done this with their own dogs and tried five different tests get five different results. With the DNA testing that you're talking about for the breeding program. Is that different than a kit that anybody could just buy and find out what breeds of dog are in your dog?
DNA TESTING
Well with any lab, I’m sure there is a an amount of variance in accuracy, what we are testing for for diseases, unless the lab makes a horrendous mistake. It's a yes or no answer because They're looking for 0,1 or 2 genes. Zero means the dog doesn't carry it. 1 way may mean to dog is a carrier of the disease, but it's still safe, that dog won't ever be affected by the disease, or that dog carries two genes, and therefore, that dog has that disease, and it will be expressed, whatever common life is difficult for that particular disease. So that is very, very useful for us, of course, to avoid health issues, but then we have the aesthetic part of DNA testing. And that tells us, you know, whether they carry zero curl genes, or one or two curl genes, whether they have zero shedding genes, whether this dog has the capacity, to produce chocolates, or burls, or, you know, phantom, or tuxedos or party color, you know, all of that is the aesthetic side to it. And then there is the breed designation, side to it. Not all labs, do all of those in one test. But I know, for instance, Embark does all three of those. And what happened with the 3 designation is many times, for instance, look at the golden doodle, okay, one day the golden doodle may be listed a breed there. But it's always going to pull our show poodle or golden retrievers in the background, and the heritage of the Golden Retriever. You know, it wasn't just the golden retriever dropped onto the earth, it was created by crossing other breeds. So when you test that you find those ancient breeds also in there. So that I think is one of the reasons why, oftentimes, the result looks skewed. Because you're you're pulling ancient genes from founding breeds, because all of our dogs, all of our purebred dogs were created by crossing other breeds together some time in the past.
Well, Amy, we are out of time. I have one selfish question that I've always wanted to ask, before we wrap up, and that is, what is a healthy amount of litters that a female could or should have before she's retired from breeding?
HOW MANY LITTERS PER DOG?
Well, we actually limit our dogs to four litters. But it is not due to a health concern. Our breeding dogs are raised in families so that they grow up as a single dog, or maybe one or two dogs in a family. And when that dog finishes its breeding career, it gets spayed or neutered, so we limit our litters to four. However, I have followed Dr. Hutchinson, who is one of the leading reproductive vets in the United States. And his statement is that you can breed a dog every single heat until the litter sizes decrease. And that tells you that that dog, her breeding career is coming to an end. And without getting too technical. Every time a dog comes into heat, they shed the lining of the uterus. And it's exactly as harmful to their well being as having a litter of puppies, and therefore having a litter or not literally as long as they're not spayed and they're going through a heat cycle, they experience basically the same thing. So that could give you 10 litters. 2 litters from from a single dog. As long as she is healthy, bounces back and enjoys being a mom. There really isn't a limit to how many litters a dog could or should have.
Thank you for all of this amazing information. Amy, where can everyone find out more information about you and your Fox Creek Farm golden doodle breeding program?
Well, our website is very easy to remember it's Goldendoodles.net N E T. We are Fox Creek Farm. So that's what you will see when you open up the website.
Wonderful. Well, Amy, thank you for being a responsible breeder. And for being a founder of GANA, that is an amazing program. If only all breeds had something like that, that would be amazing. So I really want to commend you for all of the hard work that you do in your program.
Thank you very much. It's been a pleasure today.
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